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	<title>Comments on: Cook Inlet belugas are now listed as endangered</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/</link>
	<description>Environmental reporter Christopher Dunagan discusses the challenges of protecting Puget Sound and all things water-related.</description>
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		<title>By: Blue Light</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-3030</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-3030</guid>
		<description>&quot;As for captive breeding programs, such as with the pygmy rabbit, it’s my understanding that these efforts are designed to return animals to the wild. The population won’t be considered recovered until they can sustain themselves and allow natural selection to restore “wildness” to the population.&quot;

Are tribes allowed to mass-slaughter pygmy rabbits while their populations are rebuilding?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As for captive breeding programs, such as with the pygmy rabbit, it’s my understanding that these efforts are designed to return animals to the wild. The population won’t be considered recovered until they can sustain themselves and allow natural selection to restore “wildness” to the population.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are tribes allowed to mass-slaughter pygmy rabbits while their populations are rebuilding?</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon O'Hara</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-3024</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon O'Hara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 07:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-3024</guid>
		<description>I thought hatchery fish were turned loose at some point...not kept in a hatchery all their lives.

If they are turned loose...it seems likely only the strongest will make it back making it more worthy of reproduction...  but I don&#039;t know...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought hatchery fish were turned loose at some point&#8230;not kept in a hatchery all their lives.</p>
<p>If they are turned loose&#8230;it seems likely only the strongest will make it back making it more worthy of reproduction&#8230;  but I don&#8217;t know&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: cdunagan</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-2982</link>
		<dc:creator>cdunagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-2982</guid>
		<description>Again, I&#039;m not an expert, but I&#039;ve talked to plenty of biologists on this issue. Wild salmon are naturally adapted to the stream in which they reside. Breeding them with fish adapted to even the best hatchery conditions — especially hatchery fish imported from another region — cannot be a good thing for the overall vitality of the stock.

If I&#039;m wrong on any of these points, I hope my biologist friends will correct me, on or offline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, I&#8217;m not an expert, but I&#8217;ve talked to plenty of biologists on this issue. Wild salmon are naturally adapted to the stream in which they reside. Breeding them with fish adapted to even the best hatchery conditions — especially hatchery fish imported from another region — cannot be a good thing for the overall vitality of the stock.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m wrong on any of these points, I hope my biologist friends will correct me, on or offline.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon O'Hara</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-2967</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon O'Hara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-2967</guid>
		<description>If the hatchery salmon and the wild salmon intermingle what is likely to be the result?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the hatchery salmon and the wild salmon intermingle what is likely to be the result?</p>
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		<title>By: cdunagan</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-2964</link>
		<dc:creator>cdunagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-2964</guid>
		<description>I must plead temporary amnesia about the hatchery vs. wild lawsuit. How could I forget after writing about this issue for several years?
www.kitsapsun.com/news/2007/jun/13/judge-wild-salmon-are-key-to-protections/
www.kitsapsun.com/news/2007/aug/16/judge-wild-fish-hatchery-salmon-can-be-counted/ 

I even missed the fact that the case was in court this week. 

 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_re_us/salmon_listings

So I’ll guess we’ll know the legal answer to your question before long.

As for captive breeding programs, such as with the pygmy rabbit, it&#039;s my understanding that these efforts are designed to return animals to the wild. The population won&#039;t be considered recovered until they can sustain themselves and allow natural selection to restore &quot;wildness&quot; to the population.

Do you think there&#039;s a distinction between how biologists and lawyers look at this issue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must plead temporary amnesia about the hatchery vs. wild lawsuit. How could I forget after writing about this issue for several years?<br />
<a href="http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2007/jun/13/judge-wild-salmon-are-key-to-protections/" rel="nofollow">http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2007/jun/13/judge-wild-salmon-are-key-to-protections/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2007/aug/16/judge-wild-fish-hatchery-salmon-can-be-counted/" rel="nofollow">http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2007/aug/16/judge-wild-fish-hatchery-salmon-can-be-counted/</a> </p>
<p>I even missed the fact that the case was in court this week. </p>
<p> <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_re_us/salmon_listings" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_re_us/salmon_listings</a></p>
<p>So I’ll guess we’ll know the legal answer to your question before long.</p>
<p>As for captive breeding programs, such as with the pygmy rabbit, it&#8217;s my understanding that these efforts are designed to return animals to the wild. The population won&#8217;t be considered recovered until they can sustain themselves and allow natural selection to restore &#8220;wildness&#8221; to the population.</p>
<p>Do you think there&#8217;s a distinction between how biologists and lawyers look at this issue?</p>
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		<title>By: Blue Light</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-2962</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-2962</guid>
		<description>Pygmy rabbit.

http://www.pacificbio.org/ESIN/Mammals/PygmyRabbit/pygmyrabbit.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pygmy rabbit.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pacificbio.org/ESIN/Mammals/PygmyRabbit/pygmyrabbit.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pacificbio.org/ESIN/Mammals/PygmyRabbit/pygmyrabbit.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Blue Light</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-2960</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-2960</guid>
		<description>Actually, Chris, the question is before a judge right now.

I&#039;ve always found it inconsistent that - under the ESA - we augmented our endangered pocket rabbit (I think that&#039;s it) population with a captive breeding program, but can&#039;t do that with salmon and hatcheries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Chris, the question is before a judge right now.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always found it inconsistent that &#8211; under the ESA &#8211; we augmented our endangered pocket rabbit (I think that&#8217;s it) population with a captive breeding program, but can&#8217;t do that with salmon and hatcheries.</p>
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		<title>By: cdunagan</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-2959</link>
		<dc:creator>cdunagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-2959</guid>
		<description>This is where we need a fisheries biologist to weigh in. 

I know just enough to be dangerous — such as the idea of limiting efforts to boost natural stocks with hatchery production for only three generations, such as the genetic weakness caused by inbred hatchery fish, such as efforts to keep hatchery and wild stocks separate, such as the overall goal of restoring distinct wild salmon runs without interference from hatchery fish...

Anyone out there care to help us out with this question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is where we need a fisheries biologist to weigh in. </p>
<p>I know just enough to be dangerous — such as the idea of limiting efforts to boost natural stocks with hatchery production for only three generations, such as the genetic weakness caused by inbred hatchery fish, such as efforts to keep hatchery and wild stocks separate, such as the overall goal of restoring distinct wild salmon runs without interference from hatchery fish&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyone out there care to help us out with this question?</p>
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		<title>By: Blue Light</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-2955</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-2955</guid>
		<description>Yes, I know all that.  I, personally, think it has been &quot;used&quot; to further a political agenda.  And those using it thusly should not be able to say they are following the best available &quot;science&quot;. Personally.

But, let me ask you this:  If a &quot;distinct population segment&quot; is artificially augmented and those, let&#039;s say &quot;hatchery fish&quot;, and native fish interbreed when mature, should those hatchery fish be counted as members of that population?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I know all that.  I, personally, think it has been &#8220;used&#8221; to further a political agenda.  And those using it thusly should not be able to say they are following the best available &#8220;science&#8221;. Personally.</p>
<p>But, let me ask you this:  If a &#8220;distinct population segment&#8221; is artificially augmented and those, let&#8217;s say &#8220;hatchery fish&#8221;, and native fish interbreed when mature, should those hatchery fish be counted as members of that population?</p>
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		<title>By: cdunagan</title>
		<link>http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/2008/10/20/cook-inlet-belugas-are-now-listed-as-endangered/comment-page-1/#comment-2953</link>
		<dc:creator>cdunagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pugetsoundblogs.com/waterways/?p=841#comment-2953</guid>
		<description>Blue Light, you are right that this has been a controversial part of the Endangered Species Act through the years. Many listings have been approved on denied on whether a specific population has unique enough characteristics to be protected.

But Congress always intended that the law protect more than an entire species as defined by broad taxonomy. The original Endangered Species Act defined species as &quot;any subspecies of fish or wildlife or plants and any other group of fish or wildlife of the same species or smaller taxa in common spatial arrangement that interbreed when mature&quot;.

Because of problems with the definition, the act was amended in 1978 to define species as “any subspecies of fish or wildlife or plants, and any distinct population segment (DPS) of any species of vertebrate fish or wildlife which interbreeds when mature.” 

So the focus turned to what constitutes a “distinct population segment,” and this has become a complex and controversial issue for many species, including the Southern Resident (Puget Sound) killer whales. 

I won’t go into it here, but I will recommend an excellent analysis by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that addresses salmon, as well as an article by lawyer Tatjana Rosen in The Encyclopedia of Earth. If anyone wants to pursue the issue for a given species, one must turn to the “status review and extinction risk assessment” to see why federal officials deem it important to save a given population. An update  for the Cook Inlet beluga whales includes this comment:

“The population of belugas in Cook Inlet is discrete from other Alaskan and Russian beluga populations in the Arctic. Physically, these whales are isolated from other populations by the Alaska Peninsula. Despite extensive, dedicated marine mammal survey effort, the lack of sightings along the southern side of the Alaska Peninsula and Aleutian Islands chain suggests that the Cook Inlet population does not disperse into the Bering Sea…”

USFWS distinct population policy: http://www.fws.gov/endangered/POLICY/Pol005.html

Encyclopedia of Earth: http://www.eoearth.org/article/Distinct_Population_Segment_policy_(1996)_under_the_Endangered_Species_Act,_United_States

Beluga risk assessment (PDF 2.9 mb): http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/Publications/ProcRpt/PR2008-08.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blue Light, you are right that this has been a controversial part of the Endangered Species Act through the years. Many listings have been approved on denied on whether a specific population has unique enough characteristics to be protected.</p>
<p>But Congress always intended that the law protect more than an entire species as defined by broad taxonomy. The original Endangered Species Act defined species as &#8220;any subspecies of fish or wildlife or plants and any other group of fish or wildlife of the same species or smaller taxa in common spatial arrangement that interbreed when mature&#8221;.</p>
<p>Because of problems with the definition, the act was amended in 1978 to define species as “any subspecies of fish or wildlife or plants, and any distinct population segment (DPS) of any species of vertebrate fish or wildlife which interbreeds when mature.” </p>
<p>So the focus turned to what constitutes a “distinct population segment,” and this has become a complex and controversial issue for many species, including the Southern Resident (Puget Sound) killer whales. </p>
<p>I won’t go into it here, but I will recommend an excellent analysis by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that addresses salmon, as well as an article by lawyer Tatjana Rosen in The Encyclopedia of Earth. If anyone wants to pursue the issue for a given species, one must turn to the “status review and extinction risk assessment” to see why federal officials deem it important to save a given population. An update  for the Cook Inlet beluga whales includes this comment:</p>
<p>“The population of belugas in Cook Inlet is discrete from other Alaskan and Russian beluga populations in the Arctic. Physically, these whales are isolated from other populations by the Alaska Peninsula. Despite extensive, dedicated marine mammal survey effort, the lack of sightings along the southern side of the Alaska Peninsula and Aleutian Islands chain suggests that the Cook Inlet population does not disperse into the Bering Sea…”</p>
<p>USFWS distinct population policy: <a href="http://www.fws.gov/endangered/POLICY/Pol005.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fws.gov/endangered/POLICY/Pol005.html</a></p>
<p>Encyclopedia of Earth: <a href="http://www.eoearth.org/article/Distinct_Population_Segment_policy_(1996)_under_the_Endangered_Species_Act,_United_States" rel="nofollow">http://www.eoearth.org/article/Distinct_Population_Segment_policy_(1996)_under_the_Endangered_Species_Act,_United_States</a></p>
<p>Beluga risk assessment (PDF 2.9 mb): <a href="http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/Publications/ProcRpt/PR2008-08.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/Publications/ProcRpt/PR2008-08.pdf</a></p>
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